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Why Triplejack is NOT Gambling...

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Why Triplejack is NOT Gambling...

Postby viday » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:26 am

Well ,here it is... There has been a lot of discussion in the TJ chat about if the new Jacks games makes TJ gambling...

The definitive answer is NO!

According to the US Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA) a Bet or Wager is defined as follows:

(1 ) BET OR WAGER.
The term 'bet or wager'—
(A) means the staking or risking by any person of something of value upon the outcome of a contest of others, a sporting event, or a game subject to chance, upon an agreement or understanding that the person or another person will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome;
(B) includes the purchase of a chance or opportunity to win a lottery or other prize (which opportunity to win is predominantly subject to chance);
(C) includes any scheme of a type described in section 3702 of title 28;
(D) includes any instructions or information pertaining to the establishment or movement of funds by the bettor or customer in, to, or from an account with the business of betting or wagering;


Section (A) above clearly states, in layman's terms, that a bet or wager is when you are betting something of value and receiving something of value.... Once might say that a Jack has value because you 'can' pay for them, however you can also get them for free by simply playing the game... And, most importantly the person receiving the Jacks is not receiving anything of value because they can not sell them or cash them out...

(B), (C) do not apply because you are not purchasing a chance to win anything, but I included them for consistency.

(D) pertains to the bettor (the player in our case), moving funds to or from a betting establishment, which by definition (A), we are not.


To take this one step further even The following section is where it is describes what is excluded:
(E) does not include-
(i) any activity governed by the securities laws (as that term is defined in section 3(a)(47) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 for the purchase or sale of securities (as that term is defined in section 3(a)(10) of that Act);
(ii) any transaction conducted on or subject to the rules of a registered entity or exempt board of trade under the Commodity Exchange Act;
(iii) any over-the-counter derivative instrument;
(iv) any other transaction that
(I) is excluded or exempt from regulation under the Commodity Exchange Act; or
(II) is exempt from State gaming or bucket shop laws under section 12(e) of the Commodity Exchange Act or section 28(a) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934;
(v) any contract of indemnity or guarantee;
(vi) any contract for insurance;
(vii) any deposit or other transaction with an insured depository institution;
(viii) participation in any game or contest in which participants do not stake or risk anything of value other than
(I) personal efforts of the participants in playing the game or contest or obtaining access to the Internet; or
(II) points or credits that the sponsor of the game or contest provides to participants free of charge and that can be used or redeemed only for participation in games or contests offered by the sponsor; or
(ix) participation in any fantasy or simulation sports game or educational game or contest in which (if the game or contest involves a team or teams) no fantasy or simulation sports team is based on the current membership of an actual team that is a member of an amateur or professional sports organization (as those terms are defined in section 3701 of title 28) and that meets the following conditions:
(I) All prizes and awards offered to winning participants are established and made known to the participants in advance of the game or contest and their value is not determined by the number of participants or the amount of any fees paid by those participants.
(II) All winning outcomes reflect the relative knowledge and skill of the participants and are determined predominantly by accumulated statistical results of the performance of individuals (athletes in the case of sports events) in multiple real-world sporting or other events.
(III) No winning outcome is based
(aa) on the score, pointspread, or any performance or performances of any single real world team or any combination of such teams; or
(bb) solely on any single performance of an individual athlete in any single real-world sporting or other event.


Notice that section (viii) says it is OK to "stake" or "risk" "personal efforts" which constitutes the time you take to play and that it is OK to "stake" points or credits that the sponsor of the game (Triplejack) provides to participants free of charge and that can be used or redeemed only for participation in games or contests offered by the sponsor..

Since Jacks are available free of charge (in other words, we are not requiring that you buy them in order to play) and you can not use them or redeem them for anything besides virtual things in the game, then again... It is not Gambling...

Of course this is the US regulation that governs the act of Internet gambling and does not necessarily address other countries, we are a US based company and as stated in our Terms and Conditions, Section 8 Player Eligibility, Access to Triplejack may not be legal in your jurisdiction and we do not warrant that it is.

I hope this information is helpful to those who have had concerns.

Viday
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Re: Why Triplejack is NOT Gambling...

Postby Sssh_I_M_Hiding » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:18 pm

I sooooo agree Viday! Even so, after reading all that; NOW I have headache, lol; your fault, too, Viday! grrrr

In fact, I agree so much, that several months [this past April] ago, I co-suggested a game of this type [read back, under suggestions to Zen]; and all the powers that be, jumped on me; saying: ' No, no, no; it would or could be construed as gambling'. I argued, using your very point .. jacks can be won; they do not HAVE to be purchased; but; apparently, I lost; or did I, lol ...... as, here is the game, lol.

I am using this userid, as my 'other one' with the 'correct' password; keeps getting rejected when I try to log into the forum; sure works good when I log into the TJ game site, or even the Championship game [dazza's], but doesn't work here; must be something about me, suggestions and the forum, lol. :oops:


j
Last edited by Sssh_I_M_Hiding on Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why Triplejack is NOT Gambling...

Postby viday » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:34 pm

Katty,

Must be a forum glitch... Your suggestions are always welcome!

This is something that has been in the works for a long time... Several people have suggested it in the meanwhile, but we have a VERY long list of feature upgrades so it takes time for us to get to everything on our list. We have numerous other feature updates coming in the next few weeks as well.

More Power!

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Re: Why Triplejack is NOT Gambling...

Postby king_bpeti » Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:09 am

I like this new jacks tour system! Pretty cool and i think it's better for the players as well! :)
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Re: Why Triplejack is NOT Gambling...

Postby Sigur_Ros » Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:44 am

so you pay money for jacks. then you put those jacks on the table to win more money. and how is that not gambling?

Section (A) above clearly states, in layman's terms, that a bet or wager is when you are betting something of value and receiving something of value.... Once might say that a Jack has value because you 'can' pay for them... ~Viday
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Re: Why Triplejack is NOT Gambling...

Postby BeeSting » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:06 am

Sigur_Ros wrote:so you pay money for jacks. then you put those jacks on the table to win more money. and how is that not gambling?

Section (A) above clearly states, in layman's terms, that a bet or wager is when you are betting something of value and receiving something of value.... Once might say that a Jack has value because you 'can' pay for them... ~Viday


If you are going to quote someone don't use just part of the quote only so that you can further your own point. So that the information is not misrepresented here is the rest of the quote:

Section (A) above clearly states, in layman's terms, that a bet or wager is when you are betting something of value and receiving something of value.... Once might say that a Jack has value because you 'can' pay for them, however you can also get them for free by simply playing the game... And, most importantly the person receiving the Jacks is not receiving anything of value because they can not sell them or cash them out...


So here it states that the jacks do not contain monetary value since you cannot receive money from it.
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---|||---|||---On Your
---|||---|||---account If
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Re: Why Triplejack is NOT Gambling...

Postby buknoy3 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:43 pm

Sigur_Ros wrote:so you pay money for jacks. then you put those jacks on the table to win more money. and how is that not gambling?

Section (A) above clearly states, in layman's terms, that a bet or wager is when you are betting something of value and receiving something of value.... Once might say that a Jack has value because you 'can' pay for them... ~Viday



so this is to let you understand what you are saying..ill quote you base on your own thoughts

1. you pay money for jacks which is true
2. then you put jacks on the table to win more money which is false
- you put jacks on the table to win jacks not money
- even though you pay money for jacks it doesn't mean you are playing for your money..
- this not logic subject wherein you argue that money = jacks so therefore jacks = money, which is what you want to point out but you totally misinterpret it.. you know why? because you pay money for jacks but jacks cant pay you money.. you cant get money out of your jacks.. you cant really say you are betting your money.. because once you convert your money into jacks.. it would always be jacks.. and you cant pay out money for your jacks.. good day
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Re: Why Triplejack is NOT Gambling...

Postby Sigur_Ros » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:11 pm

oh... I thought it was a $500 dollar visa card. I didn't know it was a 500 jacks card. my bad.
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Re: Why Triplejack is NOT Gambling...

Postby Sigur_Ros » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:18 pm

and for BeeSting... If I am one of those who agrees with the first part of Viday's statement, then the latter part of the "Once might say that a Jack has value because you 'can' pay for them..." statement was unnecessary. I am one who might say that jacks have value. The "however" part doesn't apply here. See what I mean?
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Re: Why Triplejack is NOT Gambling...

Postby buknoy3 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:27 pm

what's the $500 visa tourney got to do with jacks game?
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Re: Why Triplejack is NOT Gambling...

Postby kinjo » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:03 pm

lack of understanding on most of us, i would say...

some might think that it is real gambling when they need to purchase jacks and play with it at jacks table..

some might think that they can win jacks from other tourneys (without money involved) and play with it at jacks table..

technically.. i agree with viday.. it is in his first post.. it explains everything...

for most players who are not okay with the idea of the jacks game.. "there are still tables available" regular games.. like old times...

let's just opt for the table where we will all be fine without any issues :D

happy new year !!!

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Re: Why Triplejack is NOT Gambling...

Postby BeeSting » Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:13 am

Sigur_Ros wrote:oh... I thought it was a $500 dollar visa card. I didn't know it was a 500 jacks card. my bad.


Yes there is a $500 dollar visa card prize, however it still doesn't make the site a gambling site as you do not have to pay for jacks, you can win them. If someone chooses to buy jacks then that is a choice (however it is not required to buy them to enter the tournament and it is this fact that means that this is not gambling).

(A) means the staking or risking by any person of something of value upon the outcome of a contest of others, a sporting event, or a game subject to chance, upon an agreement or understanding that the person or another person will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome


Since jacks themselves have no value (since you cannot trade them in for cash) it means that the winning of the $500 visa card is not actually gambling.

Think of it another way - when you buy a magazine and enter competitions in that magazine it is not gambling - this is because when you have bought the magazine it doesn't have any monetary value. This is the same with Jacks - once you have bought them they have no monetary value.
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---|||---|||---On Your
---|||---|||---account If
---|||---|||---You Know
----\\\- ///----Someone
-----\\///-----Who Died
------///\-----Of
-----///\\\----Cancer
----///--\\\---Or whom maybe suffering from it
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Re: Why Triplejack is NOT Gambling...

Postby Sigur_Ros » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:17 am

The reason I brought this up has nothing to do with my personal moral convictions.. I could almost care less. I enjoy a friendly cash game from time to time. It seemed to me that Triplejack use to pride themselves in Not being a gambling site. Not sure if it still is, but "Triplejack is Not a gambling site" use to be in bright bold letters on top of the sign on screen. I think some you just enjoy arguing. My original comment was pretty simple. I think it was something like, "triplejack is getting pretty close to a gambling site". 'lol' may have been in there too. I didn't realize so many people would get so worked up. anyhoo... take er easy.
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Re: Why Triplejack is NOT Gambling...

Postby viday » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:06 pm

Sigur_Ros wrote:The reason I brought this up has nothing to do with my personal moral convictions.. I could almost care less. I enjoy a friendly cash game from time to time. It seemed to me that Triplejack use to pride themselves in Not being a gambling site. Not sure if it still is, but "Triplejack is Not a gambling site" use to be in bright bold letters on top of the sign on screen. I think some you just enjoy arguing. My original comment was pretty simple. I think it was something like, "triplejack is getting pretty close to a gambling site". 'lol' may have been in there too. I didn't realize so many people would get so worked up. anyhoo... take er easy.


FYI, "Triplejack is not a gambling poker game." is still prominently displayed on our home page, just above the big logo and "Play Now" button...

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Re: Why Triplejack is NOT Gambling...

Postby buknoy3 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:28 pm

Sigur_Ros wrote:The reason I brought this up has nothing to do with my personal moral convictions.. I could almost care less. I enjoy a friendly cash game from time to time. It seemed to me that Triplejack use to pride themselves in Not being a gambling site. Not sure if it still is, but "Triplejack is Not a gambling site" use to be in bright bold letters on top of the sign on screen. I think some you just enjoy arguing. My original comment was pretty simple. I think it was something like, "triplejack is getting pretty close to a gambling site". 'lol' may have been in there too. I didn't realize so many people would get so worked up. anyhoo... take er easy.


-fyi sigur_ros.. after your comment, we just made our point on what seems to be misinterpreted by you to further understand the jacks game.. no ones arguing with you, we were explaining it to you..

and another thing, the comment you posted here was this

Sigur_Ros wrote:so you pay money for jacks. then you put those jacks on the table to win more money. and how is that not gambling?


- maybe you posted what you said about triplejack getting close to a gambling site on another thread.. so i would just want you to know.. that, this is a different one.. so maybe you could check your facts before commenting on the people who replied to your comment for you to further understand the issue.. good day
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